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本书第2章1-6节译文

对“本书第2章1-6节译文”的回应

孙嘻嘻 2013-11-21 09:40:51

老大,听编辑说中文版似乎是下厂印刷了。不过,还是建议你别等啦,买原版吧。

Godsoul 2013-11-21 09:37:59

老大,10年到现在3年了,翻的差不多没啊?等着买啊。还出版吗?

孙嘻嘻 2012-08-16 10:21:36

转角处十字路口:
你的观点不能说没有道理。不过,如你所言“我们听演讲的时候,真正关注内容,演讲者很好的用他不见得好的英语传达了。”你所说的这些演讲,演讲者虽然口语稍逊,但还不影响听众对其所表述内容的吸收。不知你有没认真读过本书,在我看来,本书作者的英文表达能力通篇都在给读者“设局”,严重影响到了读者对知识的吸收。这与你举的演讲例子其实是两码事。
你还说“作者没有莎翁的才思,却也是在辛苦耕耘后竭力的贡献自己的知识来帮助他人”。我告诉你,此书原版的价格是99.99美元。作者有没有“竭力的贡献”我不知道,我只知道作者在本书上收入,对得起他的“贡献”。
当你在阅读一本技术书籍时,如果作者的文字表达能力差到了处处给你“设局”的地步呢,你会做如何感想?

Alan Duan 2012-08-15 22:15:03

相形高下立见,国内大学不乏如此学者。不贴还好,一贴就真相大白。以己之长搏他人之短。何况短未必短,而长也未必见得长。即便作者没有莎翁的才思,却也是在辛苦耕耘后竭力的贡献自己的知识来帮助他人。这一点也值得尊敬了。谦逊不见得是年轻人必须的美德,译者有自由观点的权力。自然可以轻作者贡献而着重笔墨来关注他的写作功力的薄弱。而我们这些没时间和文化的SB也可以同样无视译者为保证翻译质量而付出的努力,来嘲讽译者没本事或者没心境来自己写一本以资读者。换位思考,就觉得好笑了。得道失道之间,全看民心所向,用脚投票。

我想起我认识的一个人,每当遇到别人看TED演讲时,就走过来评论一番人家的英语口音不如他,表达不如他,然后仰头走开。虽然公正的说,他的英语的确不错,甚至好过很多著名的演讲者。但关键是,我们听演讲的时候,真正关注内容,演讲者很好的用他不见得好的英语传达了。我们从演讲中得到了知识,而他从不断的优越感积累中失去了朋友。

孙嘻嘻 2012-04-13 23:01:40

没时间和没文化的傻逼浪费口舌。
引用一位朋友的话“又看见一个既不看中文版,也不看英文版,上来就骂街的,而且选择性地矛头指向译者。为什么?就因为作者的名字是用拉丁字母拼出来的?
想知道一些伪读者自身的层次有多低,有的时候确实需要相当丰富的想象力。”

Hector 2012-04-10 08:40:33

孙嘻嘻你的英文充满了小学生的水平,
I think... I can't... 一大堆,看来只会用这样简单的句式吧,看着也很无聊。
句子衔接只会用and...,
从你的邮件就可以看出来,你的英文也不过只是一般水平,能口头交流,口水话应该没什么问题,笔头?还是考虑考虑再说。
你的译文水平,在我看来,翻翻词典,挨个儿直译也没有什么难度,考虑到作者的行文比较清晰,我想,要是作者用一些简单的俚语,你可能也傻眼了。
为什么我们读到的很多中文翻译书籍都不咋地,大家狂喊读原版读原版,不就是有像你一样这些班门弄斧,半罐水的人捣乱么?说请了是你不自量力,说重了你就是不尊重一门语言!
作者的回复很谦虚,很有大师风范。相比之下,你就像一个好像抓到点儿啥漏洞的小屁孩儿,一个劲儿的像大人表现:"哈哈,我找到你的错啦,我找到你的错啦!" 其实你不知道,你根本不在作者的水平线上,也没有理解作者的实际用意。
的确,人无完人,就像 Curse of Knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge) 里面提到的,传达知识的确很难,只有像作者这样潜心在Linux领域这么久的大师,能够明白自己还有不足,并且虚心接受意见,在我看来已经远远超越了你(不,和你比岂不是太不合适,罪过罪过)
技术界有个不成文的文化,就是关于如何问问题,就是给你这样的人说的,自己的技术功底和语言功底都不扎实,却来尝试做翻译,你这是给中国技术圈又添了一份拙劣的译本,何必呢? 要翻译自己在自己的博客什么地方做吧,至少那是你私人的地方,也不用在光天化日之下丢人现眼,因为看上去,你远远没有那份谦逊的心,那么你又何必在公共场合挑战自己的极限呢?
想想吧

城北大洋桃有毛 2011-12-30 11:03:19

评论没错,带攻击就不好了~

东来 2011-12-30 09:15:28

“我是没本事写这样书,但比不代表我没有权利评论它。” 赞同+1

对,每个人都有权发表自己的观点。

孙嘻嘻 2011-10-16 19:40:41

回楼上!
如果按你的说法,豆瓣可以关门了。
打个比方,要是影迷说张艺谋的《黄金甲》垃圾,张艺谋要是反驳道,你要是觉得你能拍得更好,为啥不拍一部给我瞧瞧?
我是没本事写这样书,但比不代表我没有权利评论它。

城北大洋桃有毛 2011-08-29 18:22:58

>>第三、通过翻译此书,个人认为,在写作水平上我只能给作者1星。

不至于吧,我觉得原作者写的很好呐~ 不用这么贬低原作者吧。你要是觉得你能写得更好,为啥不也出一本英文的给他们瞧瞧~~?

孙嘻嘻 2011-05-31 17:10:51

回楼上:第一、你可以认为此书5星,但我也有我的观点。第二、并非我要刷书评,我只是为我的译文收集反馈信息,以便进一步修改译文。第三、通过翻译此书,个人认为,在写作水平上我只能给作者1星。

fossilet 2011-05-31 15:42:19

第二章是对Linux下编程相关概念的非常粗略的快速掠影,所以没有必要仔细解释。作者采用了这种递进的介绍模式,并不能说这一章写得差。对新手,别说pseudoterminal了,就是shell这样基本的东西,这样的概念性介绍也是远远达不到让读者理解的深度的,所以正如作者所说,也不是针对新手的。

另外,楼主的批评邮件可怎么都算不上委婉啊。

fossilet 2011-05-31 15:07:12

楼主,这个书你觉得差,也不用一篇一篇1星的书评来把评价刷低吧。

iLRainyday 2011-05-27 22:20:47

恐怕又得在下面写上一堆“译者注”了。

孙嘻嘻 2011-05-27 21:37:14

本书的第二章作者写的很差,我们以邮件的形式委婉表达了这一观点,附上邮件原文:
Michael:
I'v just finished the translation of chapter 2 of LPI.
I understand your motivation: to provide some background knowledge to
those Linux or Unix newbies.
But i don't think u have achieved that goal:
the fundamental concepts are very hard to understand.and I think it's
absolutely difficult to describe those concepts simply in words.
My suggestion is that you should include more examples and
demos,pictures,which chapter 2 is very lack of.
and your explaination or discussion often introduce new knowledges.
for example: function call linkage information,i don't know what it
means. BTW,The same problem exists in page 76,chapter 4, where you
describe O_DSYNC like this:
"Perform file writes according to the requirements of synchronized I/O
data integrity completion. See the discussion of kernel I/O buffering in
Section 13.3."
I can't understand what "synchronized I/O data integrity completion"
means, even after having read the 3.374 base definition of SUSv3. Only
when I read the corresponding section (Section 3.3) in "Advanced Unix
Programming Enviroment v2" by Stevens & Rago, I have got the idea.I
think u can learn the way they describe a concept. It's very easy to
understand.


And back to chapter 2,the introduction of pseduterminals is very hard
to understand. Without a specified scienario, and simply using
abstract technology terms,I can't imagine where we can make use of
this techonology . Still, within one paragraph(2nd paragraph,section
2.15), you use a lot of "driver"s among which their meaning may be
differnt(e.g."Output written by the driver program undergoes the usual
input processing performed by the terminal driver"),and this can
easily cause misleading,especially to newbies.


yours sincerely
sunjian

以下是作者的回复:
Hello Sun Jian,

2011/5/21 sun jian <5515159@gmail.com>:

> Michael:
> I'v just finished the translation of chapter 2 of LPI.
> I understand your motivation: to provide some background knowledge to
> those Linux or Unix newbies.
> But i don't think u have achieved that goal:
> the fundamental concepts are very hard to understand.and I think it's
> absolutely difficult to describe those concepts simply in words.


I'm not really going to disagree with anything you say here. I'll just
note a few points:

* My primary audience here was not newbies as such, but rather people
who come to Linux / UNIX front another operating system.
* Indeed, it's very difficult to explain some of these concepts in a
few words. As you indicate, I could probably have done better in a few
places.
* More pictures and more explanation is a good idea, but I also wanted
to keep this chapter short


> My suggestion is that you should include more examples and
> demos,pictures,which chapter 2 is very lack of.


I will note this for the next revision! Thank you.


> and your explaination or discussion often introduce new knowledges.
> for example: function call linkage information,i don't know what it
> means.


Good point. I could have added some words on that.


> BTW,The same problem exists in page 76,chapter 4, where you
> describe O_DSYNC like this:
> "Perform file writes according to the requirements of synchronized I/O
> data integrity completion. See the discussion of kernel I/O buffering in
> Section 13.3."
> I can't understand what "synchronized I/O data integrity completion"
> means, even after having read the 3.374 base definition of SUSv3. Only
> when I read the corresponding section (Section 3.3) in "Advanced Unix
> Programming Enviroment v2" by Stevens & Rago, I have got the idea.I
> think u can learn the way they describe a concept. It's very easy to
> understand.


Okay -- I noted your point here, to keep in mind for the second edition.


> And back to chapter 2,the introduction of pseduterminals is very hard
> to understand. Without a specified scienario, and simply using
> abstract technology terms,I can't imagine where we can make use of
> this techonology . Still, within one paragraph(2nd paragraph,section
> 2.15), you use a lot of "driver"s among which their meaning may be
> differnt(e.g."Output written by the driver program undergoes the usual
> input processing performed by the terminal driver"),and this can


I agree. The multiple meanings of the term "driver" is confusing. I
will make a note...

I wish you had been able to read chapters of the book before
publication. I am sure you would have helped make it better! In the
meantime, please keep the comments coming; I will make use of them for
the 2e.

Best regards,

Michael


作者的回复,不用我翻译了吧?

《The Linux Programming Interface》热门书评


书名: The Linux Programming Interface
作者: Michael Kerrisk
出版社: No Starch Press
副标题: A Linux and UNIX Programming Handbook
出版年: April 2010
页数: 1600
定价: $99.95
装帧: Hardcover
ISBN: 9781593272203