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对此书“赞誉”的翻译

对“对此书“赞誉”的翻译”的回应

iLRainyday 2014-01-13 11:35:10

@Eru 题主抱怨的似乎是说这本书不够循序渐进、循循善诱,问题是这本书本来就不是面向新手的introduction性质的书籍,人家是handbook啊~~

Eru 2014-01-13 11:30:13

首先我没看过这本书,以下评论纯属推断。
别的不说,就我看题主给作者发的邮件,明显能看出题主的英语水平就很有限。首先一些基本的英语写作格式比如标点后面的空格都是有的有有的没,更别说句式了,各种不流畅和一些奇怪的用法。可见题主平时很少写英文。这样的情况下说原作者的表达能力不好让我感觉说服力不足。
至于作者的回复,I wish you had been able to read chapters of the book before publication. I am sure you would have helped make it better! 这多半是出于对读者的礼貌而已,提供的意见不管好赖都会这么说,基本的感谢,所以也不能说明作者确实承认自己表达能力有问题吧?

dinny 2014-01-02 13:13:12

我扫了一眼楼主的正文,仔细看了一下他发给作者的邮件。邮件中的建议部分倒是有些思路,但此书定位绝非新手,为什么要去讲synchronized i/o data integrity completion?
楼主的英文Email水平我就不吐槽了。既然不爽,我建议还是退出为妙,不要毁书。译者的愉悦感太重要了。找不到靠谱的合作译者,可以跟出版社反馈,改交稿日期也行,但万万不要勉强。此外,原作难免有瑕疵,感觉他介绍不足,你可以以译者注形式补充一下,方便读者参考。
我也译过几本书,非英语母语作者确实出现过表达一堆从句,极其绕口不好理解的情况。但一般来说,每本书都或多或少有瑕疵,也有一些先进概念所在。我建议楼主多花心思想怎么把翻译做好,补充上必要的知识,跟作者沟通理解清楚一些存在歧义部分他真正要表达的意思。
如果译者确实在该技术领域有积累、有思考、也有想法,写一本超越作者的书也未尝不可。不过你要记住,你是站在别人的肩膀上。

iLRainyday 2012-11-16 18:29:12

"他说这些所谓的经典其实都根本不需要去看,因为很多国内的书其实更好理解" ---- 恕我冒犯你这位同学,大凡说这句话的多是没看过什么经典的。如果你看过,你不可能分不出好坏。就好像只要你真正驾驶过,你不可能分不出奥迪和奇瑞的区别。

PS. 拿经典和国内的书相比,也太抬举国内的那些个当砖头都嫌分量不够的“编著”了。

CScope 2012-11-16 15:29:48

哈,有点意思-------这么看来这本书对于新手,的确不是太合适(楼主刚才指出的问题,我也看了一下,看来确实是存在的)---不过我还是想指出我为什么要看这本书的原因(APUE我已经看过了,另外其实我是学kernel-level编程的),其实原因和原作者所提到的一样,我需要一本书明确的指出:Linux和别的“Unix”的不同之处,具体在linux里是怎么处理这些不同的------另外,有一点很有意思,你对这本书的批评和我的一个同学最近对APUE的批评很想近,他说这些所谓的经典其实都根本不需要去看,因为很多国内的书其实更好理解,然后我就对他的论调提出一点:在APUE之前,没有一本书Unix下的系统级编程及其技巧讲得这么全面的了---其实在这里也是一样,APUE确实优秀,但它不是完全针对linux的,在这个linux一统天下的时代,我们(至少我个人)确实需要一本明确针对linux系统级编程的“百科全书”----期待你们的工作,你们的工作是很有意义的---

未小根 2012-10-16 08:50:55

您对"委婉"这一汉语词的认知真是让我大开眼界。

Liangzhu 2012-07-07 15:00:16

我认为非专业的译者不应对原作的内容和语言进行攻击,你们所需要做的就是和本国的编辑尽可能好的用本国语言表达原文的意思并保证是该行业人员所通用和可以理解的语汇和语句。

本人看不出你对计算机操作系统究竟有多高深的见解,你的批评对于计算机行业从业人员简直是不可理喻。如果你表达的是你们领导的观点,那我想这就不是一个可以自由讨论的问题了。

Heartwork 2012-06-20 13:05:42

看了楼主给原作者的邮件,觉得楼主说话还是很直白的,算不上委婉:)

作者也是在刚开始的时候狡辩一下,后来就在楼主的yin威下放弃了:)

犀利啊!赞。

五陵中年 2012-06-06 00:53:05

其实我来翻译比较合适, 就是没时间,大家还是直接看原版吧,

孙嘻嘻 2011-05-27 21:38:33

本书的第二章作者写的很差,我们以邮件的形式委婉表达了这一观点,附上邮件原文:
  Michael:
  I'v just finished the translation of chapter 2 of LPI.
  I understand your motivation: to provide some background knowledge to
  those Linux or Unix newbies.
  But i don't think u have achieved that goal:
  the fundamental concepts are very hard to understand.and I think it's
  absolutely difficult to describe those concepts simply in words.
  My suggestion is that you should include more examples and
  demos,pictures,which chapter 2 is very lack of.
  and your explaination or discussion often introduce new knowledges.
  for example: function call linkage information,i don't know what it
  means. BTW,The same problem exists in page 76,chapter 4, where you
  describe O_DSYNC like this:
  "Perform file writes according to the requirements of synchronized I/O
  data integrity completion. See the discussion of kernel I/O buffering in
  Section 13.3."
  I can't understand what "synchronized I/O data integrity completion"
  means, even after having read the 3.374 base definition of SUSv3. Only
  when I read the corresponding section (Section 3.3) in "Advanced Unix
  Programming Enviroment v2" by Stevens & Rago, I have got the idea.I
  think u can learn the way they describe a concept. It's very easy to
  understand.
  
  
  And back to chapter 2,the introduction of pseduterminals is very hard
  to understand. Without a specified scienario, and simply using
  abstract technology terms,I can't imagine where we can make use of
  this techonology . Still, within one paragraph(2nd paragraph,section
  2.15), you use a lot of "driver"s among which their meaning may be
  differnt(e.g."Output written by the driver program undergoes the usual
  input processing performed by the terminal driver"),and this can
  easily cause misleading,especially to newbies.
  
  
  yours sincerely
  sunjian
  
  以下是作者的回复:
  Hello Sun Jian,
  
  2011/5/21 sun jian <5515159@gmail.com>:
  
  > Michael:
  > I'v just finished the translation of chapter 2 of LPI.
  > I understand your motivation: to provide some background knowledge to
  > those Linux or Unix newbies.
  > But i don't think u have achieved that goal:
  > the fundamental concepts are very hard to understand.and I think it's
  > absolutely difficult to describe those concepts simply in words.
  
  
  I'm not really going to disagree with anything you say here. I'll just
  note a few points:
  
  * My primary audience here was not newbies as such, but rather people
  who come to Linux / UNIX front another operating system.
  * Indeed, it's very difficult to explain some of these concepts in a
  few words. As you indicate, I could probably have done better in a few
  places.
  * More pictures and more explanation is a good idea, but I also wanted
  to keep this chapter short
  
  
  > My suggestion is that you should include more examples and
  > demos,pictures,which chapter 2 is very lack of.
  
  
  I will note this for the next revision! Thank you.
  
  
  > and your explaination or discussion often introduce new knowledges.
  > for example: function call linkage information,i don't know what it
  > means.
  
  
  Good point. I could have added some words on that.
  
  
  > BTW,The same problem exists in page 76,chapter 4, where you
  > describe O_DSYNC like this:
  > "Perform file writes according to the requirements of synchronized I/O
  > data integrity completion. See the discussion of kernel I/O buffering in
  > Section 13.3."
  > I can't understand what "synchronized I/O data integrity completion"
  > means, even after having read the 3.374 base definition of SUSv3. Only
  > when I read the corresponding section (Section 3.3) in "Advanced Unix
  > Programming Enviroment v2" by Stevens & Rago, I have got the idea.I
  > think u can learn the way they describe a concept. It's very easy to
  > understand.
  
  
  Okay -- I noted your point here, to keep in mind for the second edition.
  
  
  > And back to chapter 2,the introduction of pseduterminals is very hard
  > to understand. Without a specified scienario, and simply using
  > abstract technology terms,I can't imagine where we can make use of
  > this techonology . Still, within one paragraph(2nd paragraph,section
  > 2.15), you use a lot of "driver"s among which their meaning may be
  > differnt(e.g."Output written by the driver program undergoes the usual
  > input processing performed by the terminal driver"),and this can
  
  
  I agree. The multiple meanings of the term "driver" is confusing. I
  will make a note...
  
  I wish you had been able to read chapters of the book before
  publication. I am sure you would have helped make it better! In the
  meantime, please keep the comments coming; I will make use of them for
  the 2e.
  
  Best regards,
  
  Michael
  
  
  作者的回复,不用我翻译了吧?

iLRainyday 2011-04-30 13:31:45

这本算是好了。我最近碰到的一本,作者的英文表达水平完全是不及格。

dodo 2011-03-07 11:36:37

合译实在是不得已而为之的事情。快餐时代、加之报酬低廉,单凭一己之力、全职倾力而为,就算能够译成,译者又如何糊口?而技术书籍的时效性又很强,要在进度和质量之间求得平衡,恐怕只有在保证合作者素质的前提下合作翻译一途。您说呢?

啊声 2011-02-26 11:57:25

……如果看不明白技术细节,翻译质量会受影响吗?

suivre 2011-02-12 16:59:10

不必细读都能看出lz的评论很抽象吧,信息量很有限,只是说语文不好,哪里不好,看不出来。
倒是看了ls的评论才清楚了lz批评的理由。

dodo 2011-02-11 10:22:35

我是本书的合译者之一,在第四章的翻译过程中将相关内容和APUE作了比对,有些感触:经典的力量就在于将读者的理解成本降至最低,而不是用一堆恐怖的抽象名词让人望而却步。试举一例:synchronized I/O data integration completion,尽管出自SUSv3的定义,看了还是不懂。至于本书的写作手法,由于目前翻译工作还为大范围展开,不便妄加评说

孙嘻嘻 2011-02-11 09:52:52

很多事情你没有真正去干你又怎知好不好?没接此书翻译任务之前,我也和诸君有同样的想法,可答应下来接手之后,才发现作者的英文表达能力实在不敢恭维。诚然,做一件自己都不认同的事情是没有成就感,但是言而无信要更加糟糕。现在,唯二能做的就是抱怨,外加尽量把这书给译好。
下载本书的英文版应该不难,至于本人所言是具体还是抽象请诸君细读后再评判吧。

suivre 2011-02-10 19:11:25

批评得确实很抽象

reeze 2011-02-10 10:59:36

很好奇,既然这样的话你还翻译它干嘛呢. 做一件自己都不认同的事情岂不是很没有成就感.

个人觉得技术审校是否是英语沐浴对书的质量并没有决定性的影响,尤其是技术书籍.

如果你能举些本书不足的例子就好了.

《The Linux Programming Interface》热门书评


书名: The Linux Programming Interface
作者: Michael Kerrisk
出版社: No Starch Press
副标题: A Linux and UNIX Programming Handbook
出版年: April 2010
页数: 1600
定价: $99.95
装帧: Hardcover
ISBN: 9781593272203